tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post3485003556114831015..comments2024-03-18T06:44:55.556-04:00Comments on The Birdchaser: 21st Century Bird Collectorsbirdchaserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-41915000383377510132009-09-05T07:35:34.701-04:002009-09-05T07:35:34.701-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-87325199267825159562009-09-05T07:35:16.319-04:002009-09-05T07:35:16.319-04:00I saw the blog it is a nice site to visit netting ...I saw the blog it is a nice site to visit netting bird, it was a lot of fun reading the blog. In fact, netting bird is an interesting destination i.e. covered by many websites. In fact<br />We bought bird netting too, Katrina - already had a couple of small tomatoes ruined by birdie beaks. Early on there were a couple of nice peppers and a few Juliet (grape) tomatoes - but the hail set back or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-84659274397876623682009-08-28T15:55:10.930-04:002009-08-28T15:55:10.930-04:00All birder -vs- collector religious arguments asid...All birder -vs- collector religious arguments aside: <br /><br />I bet people who own businesses near the site would have enjoyed some ECOTOURISM revenue during these tough economic times. Had the bird not been collected, an ecotourism bonanza would have almost certainly occurred.<br /><br />Ecotourism = tangible conservation benefit.<br /><br /><br />Nate DiasOffshorebirderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658825206628432555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-3637084644973850072009-08-27T12:35:28.223-04:002009-08-27T12:35:28.223-04:00Rob,
I believe there is a glimmer of progress.
...Rob,<br /><br />I believe there is a glimmer of progress. <br /><br />Others have successfully reduced this to its rub and you state it here: <br /><br />"I dispute your claim that it was the business of the two collectors to decide whether or not to shoot the bird or alert the birding community. That seems pretty arrogant when there are hundreds who would clearly disagree with their choice.Richard Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853672890358733321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-88712434177647170252009-08-27T10:44:21.848-04:002009-08-27T10:44:21.848-04:00Richard, no need for the patronizing, I think you ...Richard, no need for the patronizing, I think you are misreading me. I never said that LSU shoots birds that have been previously found by other birders, and clearly linked to "Vans Rules" about when they think its OK to shoot vagrants.<br /><br />The point is that LSU collectors shoot vagrant birds (that they find) that the birding community would like a chance to see. It's a birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-92020289328699098172009-08-27T09:14:12.789-04:002009-08-27T09:14:12.789-04:00Rob,
Let's be perfectly clear because it is o...Rob,<br /><br />Let's be perfectly clear because it is obvious you have missed this point repeatedly in multiple forums. Read it as many times as you need for it to sink in.<br /><br />LSU staff, students, associates, and people that support the museum do not -I REPEAT- do not collect vagrants found by birders. Believe it or not, almost all of the people that collect are also avid birders Richard Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853672890358733321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-49190067376043382622009-08-27T01:15:39.693-04:002009-08-27T01:15:39.693-04:00Van Remsen's 1993 defense of LSU vagrant shoot...Van Remsen's 1993 defense of LSU vagrant shooting tradition:<br /><br />http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/1993Birding.pdf<br /><br />Mostly seems to either turn a tin ear to birder outrage, or to otherwise discount it. <br /><br />The issue will not go away as long as LSU affiliated collectors are shooting vagrant birds that thousands of others would like a chance to see.birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-57324464946753946502009-08-26T19:52:07.807-04:002009-08-26T19:52:07.807-04:00Two words: Cox's Sandpiper.
Anybody remember t...Two words: Cox's Sandpiper.<br />Anybody remember that fiasco??Rick Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02801813993105953852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-19928728931916309882009-08-26T17:35:35.407-04:002009-08-26T17:35:35.407-04:00OK, let's try to find a statement we can agree...OK, let's try to find a statement we can agree on. I propose this:<br /><br />Every single person who objects to collecting - generally or in some specific case - forfeits the right to object every time they let their cats roam outdoors.<br /><br />Hah! Two third-rail topics at once. Top that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-4954934625840673912009-08-26T17:20:36.679-04:002009-08-26T17:20:36.679-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-15301539784957370222009-08-26T17:10:54.729-04:002009-08-26T17:10:54.729-04:00I have read Mr. Conover's explanation on anoth...I have read Mr. Conover's explanation on another blog, the ABA article, and Mr. Van Remsen's positions/opinions on LABIRDS (reproduced here). The issue here, to me, is about field sampling methods more than anything. My belief is that collecting a specimen is not the only way to achieve DNA samples, or other biometrics - regardless of whether it is the current field standard. I simply J. "Kyron" Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08481974367013843529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-30727643948165706522009-08-26T16:43:47.542-04:002009-08-26T16:43:47.542-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-37056588430560385892009-08-26T14:11:00.831-04:002009-08-26T14:11:00.831-04:00Van clearly states that the issue is far more comp...Van clearly states that the issue is far more complicated than a few pictures or recordings. I am certainly in favor of observing creatures when it's possible, but one stray bird during migration will give you an amazing amount of information in the hand... as opposed to snapping a few pixels flying away. Hence, I also get rather exasperated when birders don't pick up (or even stop to heidihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06376018353561979984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-85571071035259637722009-08-26T13:03:28.491-04:002009-08-26T13:03:28.491-04:00Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it...Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that for species not covered under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which includes many well-documented vagrants, no federal permit is required to collect one as a scientific specimen, trap and band it, shoot it to eat or stuff or simply as target practice, or catch it and keep it in a cage for personal or public amusement. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-81250995363856063302009-08-26T13:01:41.851-04:002009-08-26T13:01:41.851-04:00Richard, I'm not saying that permitted collect...Richard, I'm not saying that permitted collectors should be scouts for the birding community, but that most birders and ornithologists and hopefully our federal laws have moved beyond shooting birds just to verify their identification. <br /><br />As for hunting vs. collecting...they both need to be regulated. Duck hunters aren't allowed to shoot pelicans, and scientific collectors birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-75314513221125810072009-08-26T12:38:53.981-04:002009-08-26T12:38:53.981-04:00Rob, you can FOI the permit like any other citizen...Rob, you can FOI the permit like any other citizen.<br /><br />You maintain the ridiculous point that a permitted collector should be working as a scout for the birding community. Hunters are responsible for many state's first duck records and they don't catch hell so why the double standard?<br /><br />Trophy collecting?! That's funny coming from a hardcore trophy lister.Richard Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853672890358733321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-34496757259852721642009-08-26T12:07:53.530-04:002009-08-26T12:07:53.530-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-45911901682261872632009-08-26T11:54:19.089-04:002009-08-26T11:54:19.089-04:00I have nothing to add to the debate that hasn'...I have nothing to add to the debate that hasn't already been said, but this has got to be the highest ratio of words in a post to words in comments on a birding blog. One sentence = 19 pretty long comments!Patrick B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09080082715363887351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-60126725229557609862009-08-26T11:02:47.296-04:002009-08-26T11:02:47.296-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-65733509280606140052009-08-26T10:26:41.436-04:002009-08-26T10:26:41.436-04:00Nick B, I do not know the exact relationship betwe...Nick B, I do not know the exact relationship between these collectors and LSU, except that they were in such close communication that to deny any connection is ridiculous. Whether they are "from" LSU, officially employed by LSU, or merely "associated" with LSU (which can't be denied based on this story) is pretty much irrelevant. LSU ornithologists foster a tradition andbirdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-2745313491887709982009-08-26T10:20:55.001-04:002009-08-26T10:20:55.001-04:00As for the claim that the specimen "has great...As for the claim that the specimen "has great potential to science that will outlive us all" that is utter nonsense. What, beyond the trivial aspects of the birds sex, fat content, and subspecific affiliation was determined by this dead bird? Even if the DNA could be fully sequenced, it would be a sample of one and not informative in any significant way. Practically nothing was birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-20899137619471542182009-08-26T10:16:43.682-04:002009-08-26T10:16:43.682-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.birdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-65101377931713421402009-08-25T22:26:07.509-04:002009-08-25T22:26:07.509-04:00The likelihood that the bird would have ever been ...The likelihood that the bird would have ever been seen by anyone else (admit it) is extremely remote. Now, people will be on the look out. The first non-South America record was from Panama last year and now this. Perhaps it's a trend and the listers will get their tick.<br /><br />We guessed this would raise the hackle of hardcore birdchasers. It boils down to someone with state and federal Richard Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853672890358733321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-20420934488704861132009-08-25T22:12:09.969-04:002009-08-25T22:12:09.969-04:00@Anon- Who cares how common it is in South America...@Anon- Who cares how common it is in South America? How many birders from Louisiana are going to be able to take a trip to South America to see Crowned Slaty-Flycatcher versus how many people get turned onto birding because of the excitement surrounding a first ABA record? How much money gets pumped into a poor corner or Louisiana?<br /><br />Conservationists need people to care about Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04649782420633788927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9336879.post-82811999580655128732009-08-25T22:00:57.609-04:002009-08-25T22:00:57.609-04:00Hey Richard. I'm not bashing LSU for collecti...Hey Richard. I'm not bashing LSU for collecting birds. I'm questioning the importance of collecting this particular individual bird when it has so much more value for most people as a potentially chaseable vagrant, rather than as a museum specimen. You know what a bad reputation LSU has among birders for this kind of shooting, and in the past I have chuckled at bird shooting rumors andbirdchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059679554555819009noreply@blogger.com